Category: Let's talk
I post this in response to the negativity directed at blind people from blind people themselves. On this site I often see posted how most blind people cannot do anything for themselves. The posts talk about how only the select few of us actually make it. Is this true? If so, what is to become of us? If it is not true, what is all the jibber-jabber about?
I've been on the Zone for almost 3 years now, it'll be 3 this May.
Also, I grew up hearing all the stories of freaky blind people who go bump in the night and perform any other number of fanciful activities. I don't have the background to make a real prediction, but consider that the African American and other populations have done this, before cultural diversity was all the rage: people going out of their way to avoid their own alleged 'kind'.
I personally think it's pretty juvenile and childish to make these outrageous claims, which would be declared racist if applied to blacks or sexist if applied to women.
I'm sure there are some, just as there are young fools who drop out, and middle aged guys who run off and leave their families in the lurch.
But I for one am sick of claims that all men are predators, all blind people are social misfits, etc. accompanied by the backhanded compliment saying you are the exception.
I follow a number of blind people now on Twitter, developers, teachers, Coast Guardsmen, etc. Were it not for some dedicated ones on Twitter, and on here, there are a lot of things I as a blind person would probably still be doing the hard way, and less efficiently, as I did for decades.
We are just like the gays and other small populations: pretty much scattered everywhere and nobody really notices us any more or lesss than anybody else unless someone makes a point of calling us out. I personally am not buying any of the claptrap you speak of. I'm sure there are some sheltered blind people, who would be cause for grave concern if I knew them. Just as there are some very sheltered homeschoolers who do in fact cause me great concern at times because of their vast number of inabilities.
It takes a really sorry excuse of a human being to pick on and demean people who are in that situation. It would be one thing if you worked with them, they didn't do their job and you had to carry their load. But just because they're like that? To me that is bona fide cowardice, deserving of a boot to the face. Pick on someone your own size, kids.
Maybe one reason why there is so much negativity on this site is because of the extremely high level of rudeness and insensitivity many on here show to others, especially those they disagree with. I of course don’t have a problem with people not agreeing on everything, after all we are all individuals with different views, opinions and experiences. But it seems as though many on this site are too immature to accept this fact. Instead of just respectfully agreeing to disagree on a specific topic, some folks insist on arguing back and forth which accomplishes nothing but to start a bunch of unnecessary drama and nonsense. This is probably one reason why fewer people even bother posting to the boards anymore. What’s the point if you’re only going to be picked on and criticized if someone happens to disagree with you?
Maybe some people act a particular way on this site and completely different in real life. I wouldn’t know since I don’t know anything about them, have never spoken to them and will never meet them. All I can say is that by reading a lot of the posts on the boards, some folks portray themselves as truly scary individuals that I would avoid like the plague at all costs. I’m not saying this to be mean, I just hope to try to encourage people to think before they post and show some respect and concern for others. Who knows? Maybe this site will start to show some improvement.
I couldn't agree more with Leo, in this case.
Like any other catagory you can throw people into there are so-called good and bad. I say to the high and mighty ones who have so much time on their hands to put down others, "Don't you have anything better to do?" and for those who and for those of us on the other side of such bashing some encouragement. Where in Alice in Wonderland did it say that the world would be much better if everyone minded their own business?
I'm not sure why those of us who are incredibly vocal in our opinions would be deemed as negativity on this sight as a whole. everyone has different ways of expressing themselves, just as some have a thicker skin than others. however, to gripe about that, especially when it doesn't really factor into the topic at hand, is silly. it's part of life; embrace it, or don't read things you clearly can't accept as they are.
anyway, very well said, Leo. I totally second your thoughts that people aren't so concerned about this sort of thing as some seem to believe; if anything needs to change, it's that attitudes of others shouldn't be taken personally.
instead of bitching about blind people being helpless or whatever else you wanna say, more individuals should think about whether they give off the very vibe they're complaining about and rectify it if it truly bothers them.
So do people like to say such things because it makes them feel better about themselves? Are they elivated to some unknown status that is only in their head? It just seems to me that people have alot of nerve saying that they're perfect and the rest of the world should bow to them.
there are few type of people on zone. people that yes, think high of themselves and put anyone down if they don't sing the same tune like them, generally this type of people are somewhat nerrow minded, only believe in what they believe, but not open up to explore other things or other point of views. then, there is another croud of people, where generally trying to be helpful and positive, but surrounded by people who have nothing to do and claiming the internet, website or community like zone as their life. The helpful and positive type of people usually trying to help, trying to debate and analyse, however, those people who have nothing but zone seems only want to winje, and often self possess in their own little world.
then, of course, you have the next type of people, who is self centered, self possess, attention seekers, and drama queens or kings. This type of people often again, winje, and interupt in conversations whenever they log in, liking to victomise themselves, and let the whole world knows how wrong others are, they the one who like to take the advantage to victomise, and often hoping to get some sympaty out of others.
this is no different then the real world, the only different is that people on zone, often too focus on the "blind" community, and forget that there's a life beyond the "blind community", or beyond the internet.
I see it in person. The people that are in this blind comunity complain about others in the same "circle." It just makes me a bit ill. No wonder the blind are looked at sideways.
Well, I'd think one way to approach the question is to get really general and ask what motivates one person of any sort to put another one down. I'm told when people do this, the problem isn't with the person they're being negative about at all, either they're just a nearby target or whatever that person is doing or not doing or whatever is just a trigger.
Another way we can come at this is a little more on the crackpot side. See, you've got folks who look at the dominant group like they're a status symbol, so they see the minority group they're in as the losers table and the dominant group as the cool kids table. So in order to identify with the supposedly more desirable cool kids, they take on the prejudices of the cool kids to feel more a part of things. Told ya that one was a stretch. Also proves that for some folks high school just never ends.
Now, as for negativity, I want to get at this for a moment. I like to call things as I see them. I'm not interested in sugar-coating things, but I hope I'm not so dismal that I cause people to lose all hope. I want to believe I'm a realist with a tendancy towards optimism. However, if I've had negative experiences in my life or whatever, I'm going to get in there and relate things just that way. Life is not simple. It is also not all one thing or all another thing. It's also not a balance. It's a mix, and sometimes the positive will dominate the mix and sometimes the negative will. This is about all I can say.
That's the point I was trying to make; people should be able to share their experiences, whether positive or negative, without being put down or criticized or being told their worthless, or bitter, or stupid just because they think or feel a certain way or because of the experiences they've had. This site would have a lot less negativity and unnecessary drama if people tried to offer more support and encouragement rather than just constantly putting others down. Personally, if I don't have anything constructive to add to the discussion than I don't say anything. Obviously not everyone feels that way. Such as life, I guess.
But I'm not talking about negativity in general. I'm talking about negativity within the so called blind comunity. Shouldn't we be helping to build each other up instead of tearing them down?
agree with posts three and eleven
yes, people allow to share thats for sure, but when sharing become winjing, it is not helpful for any parties. take breaking up with your partner for example, if what you know is just blaiming the other party, and bitching about how bad the other party is, what an asshole he or she is, that is not healthy either.
to make it worse, there are people who simply allow the person to victomise themselvves, hoping to gain some sympathy, and hoping others will go "poor you" kind of thing.
sharing can often be very positive and have a good outcome if it done it right. but winjing goes no where.
and yes, us blind people don't often share alot, but we winje alot, for everything and anything.
One point that keeps getting brought up, and subsequently pushed into the background time and time and again is this idea that this sort of thing is restricted to the blind community. Go on any mainstream social network of your choosing and see how long it takes you to find some drama. Probably not very long. And, although it isn't quite as common, drama certainly finds its way into real life as well. the only reason it goes unnoticed more often than not is because in places like the zone, or other such social networks online, you're going to come in contact with people from all different walks of life, all different ages, all over the world. In real life, chances are, for the most part, you'll avoid places where you know you'll find people with whom you clash. On the occasion you cannot avoid these situations, well, here you will find the real life drama. See, on the internet, you have it fairly easy. You can choose where you want to avoid very freely. so, for the people who like to complain about being torn down or what have you, though you're admitedly not causing this to happen yourself, you always seem to come back for more. the people who really, truly can't stand the drama usually end up disappearing before too long. Or at the very least, they avoid the places they know they'll get the most flack.
People like to play the victem. After all, misery loves company.
Now this gets me to thinking, which may cause great danger and peril, but I'll risk. Do you think that within groups of blind and visually impaired people, there is a pecking order based on how much eyesight you have? That is, those with various levels of partial vision are higher up on the ladder of status and totally blind people are the ones at the bottom who get picked on and pecked at by everyone else. Do these disparaging attitudes or the assumption that totally blind people are uncivilized freaks come from playing into that pecking order?
Look, I can't say I've been exposed to blind people all my life outside of being on-line, but here's how I see it. There's a small percentage of folks who are the sheltered rockers and eye-pokers everybody's all bent out of shape over. There's a small percentage of blind people who are superblinks, that is, always confident, very outgoing, very smart, live whirlwind lives, and can travel to any city and get around it without getting lost and without sighted help. The rest of us are just ordinary slobs, just like most sighted people are ordinary slobs. We're not good at everything. We do better at some things than others, and occasionally we even make TV dinners in the microwave and who gives a damn how it makes us look, we're fucking hungry! Sometimes we do things by the book, other times we do stuff our own way but we get things done. Sometimes we bemoan our fate and sometimes we wouldn't have it any other way.
Some of us are aware of trends and fashions, others don't care. Some of us are geeks or nerds, others are not. In this huge middle group there's quite a variety of folks with a variety of things to bring to the table.
Admitedly, the media does like to portray blindness as either a horrible defect that nobody would wish on their worst enemy, or a super power. So, we're not the *only* ones doing this sort of thing to ourselves, but we certainly perpetuate it.
Humans, biologically and psychologically, are still stuck viewing society in terms of tribes instead of whole cities, states, countries, world. Our first instinct is to shrink our view of people down to a size that we can comprehend, and the first ways we are wired to do this is in terms of "us vs. them". We must define who is "us," and therefore, whoever is not "us" must be "them," and should be regarded with suspicion. It makes sense. It helped save us from getting eaten by lions or raided by neighboring tribes.
Now, take it here. There's "us" in families, "us" in schools, "us" in blindness. Blindness, though, is far too big of a tribe for us to comprehend, so it gets broken down even further. We don't want to be part of an "us" that has flaws because that may mean we ourselves have flaws, so we chafe and criticize defensively. We ping words and ideas off ourselves in an ever-increasing echo.
I'm guilty of this. I think most people are, in or out of this particular community. Criticism is useless, critique is our only hope. Self-evaluation and group discussion can be a great help if we're not nit-picking and trying to bring other people down for our own gain.
You get the statistic hammered into your head that 70% of those registered as blind are unemployed. It's scary to me, is it scary to any of you? It's hard not to desperately scramble to try and get to that top 30% that gets a job. What are we worth, after all, if we aren't contributing? What are we contributing if we don't work?
But the fact is, the statistics you are talking about are outdated. So why are they drilled into us? Motivation? Fear? Who knows, but I feel it encourages the negativity.
Oh and here's what I just love, right? After being on this joint for about 3 years now I've observed:
People going on and on and on about diversity about any other group: blacks, gays, women, anyone with the sex appeal. Then write appalling critique against their own supposed kind. Remember all racist, sexist, and other 'ist' people always justify what they say using all the same tactics these do.
Now, if you do play the diversity high horse in defense of other groups, and deliver the beat down on the blind, you either fall into one of two groups:
You're either still young, either still a cub or fresh outa cubhood. In that case, we all just nod in your general di-rection and understand you're just being silly and ignorant.
If you're old enough to know better, it's a tough break in the credibility department.
Put it this way: if you're on the diversity high horse about other groups, and then you go bash the blind for so-called behaviors which of course can't be proven, you make about as much sense as a white supremacist trying to speak out against sexism. Mildly amusing, if only you didn't expect any halfway-thinking individual would actually take you seriously.
I wholeheartedly agree with Miss M in post 19.
Frankly, if the 70% of blind are unemployed statistic is old, it's probably higher today.
I worked for twenty-five years as a computer programmer with an assortment of private businesses, and five years for our state's commission for the blind in their technology department.
Generally, I hated the first 25 years and loved the last five.
I saw many people whom I knew would never make it in the world at large, and some more whom I knew would make it no matter what.
As to what the future holds? I don't know. But I do know if you're going to make it it's going to take a lot of hard work and a lot of luck.
As Miss M said in her earlier post, "What are we worth, after all, if we aren't contributing?"
Bob
As to one's worth based on employment? Work is a treadmill and we do what we have to to feed the kiddos, etc. but the most meaningful activities I do are with the Coast Guard, as a member of the Auxiliar - the volunteer wing dedicated to saving lives and protecting the environment, which in turn results in saved lives.
I understand the out-of-work dilemma: I was out of work for five months once, and one month another time. I can hear some of you, quite justifiably, laughing. I understand that. Some of you have faced this subsistance existence for years on end. What I find frankly appalling is the judgment leveraged against you guys by the likes of some on here, or Glen Beck and his fellows on a certain news channel.
It is just outrages but there's not a goddamn thing I can do but shrug and worry about all of humanity.
a lot of us are honestly trying to do everything we can to find work, though. sometimes, you just can't find a job, and that has very little to do with blindness, unless of course you're using it as a crutch. I know plenty of sighted people who are unemployed simply because there are no jobs available in their area of expertees, but they're looking, every chance they get.
Then perhaps the solution might be to find those blind folks who are not disparaging of their own. I'm not, least I hope I'm not and if I am, somebody please call me on it. Yes, I want to understand why we are so hypercritical of our own. Best answer I can think of is meh, that's their problem if they're going to be assholes. Part of the reason why I do not judge other blind people, even those I should, is because I have seen the judgment and I know if I were subject to it, last thing I'd do is to give into the wishes of those who judge me. Nope, people can think fifty-seven bad thingies about me, but since they don't know me and don't intend to get to know me, they're not all that important, are they? I think I'll just go off and live my life my own way and not think I have to conform to somebody else's idea of who I should be, which will probably cause me great misery anyhow. So yeah, maybe those of us who choose to not judge one another as blind people need to band together if it can seem as if everybody else has it in for us. Good idea or not?
Well said to the last poster.
yes indeed. I must say that the n f b tends to drill into people's heads that they must be better than the sighted. So, you get the "ooo you're one of those lazy blind people" deals.
Wait a minute, that's illogical, that does not compute. If a fully sighted, fully able-bodied person is considered the template for all that is, ugh, normal, then how can any human be better than that if being sighted and able-bodied is the ultimate? Perhaps there's something I'm not processing correctly.
And, after that question's been tackled, how about this one. If in fact a blind person is expected to be better than a sighted person at things, which seems impossible, um, how come? What is doing things like that supposed to achieve, and has it been a method that is proven to be successful or is it just wishful thinking, some of that if-then-maybe jive?
I never said I understand any of that rubbish. lol. I think, however, that the theory is that if we show that we are so perfect, we will raise the standard for all the blind people because the sighted folks will look at one of us as representing the whole.
This philosophy encourages people to assume we're all alike, which does us a disservice. OK, I know, perception, but truth and reality say differently. Any sane human being who can look at one person and say the entire group of people they belong to are practically clones of one another is a fool.
Yes, and most people are fools. Remember that people don't practice common sense but instead act out of raw emotion.
This is true, people seem to feel a helluva lot more than they think. If they thought more, I have to wonder.
In other news, dude, are we gonna start some sort of misanthrop club? LOL!